Resizing/Editing COLL (bullet collision)

[Ogrish]

We really need an app that can handel this.
So anyways, if you look at the coll of an object in meta editor, and scroll to the planes area, this is where we resize COLL (Bullet Collision).

It will have an, I and have a number, then L and a number,then k and a number, then D and a number.

The I, L, and K are YAW, PITCH, AND ROLL, the D stands for the distance away from center of object.
to test this out i use the onyx pistol and spawn the edited object and shoot away.
It may be difficult to figure out which plane is which, and testing ingame is slow, so we need an app that works in real time
This takes awhile on complicated COLLs but it works, its how im resizing my trees for a project.
If anyone has an app that simplifies this further, please share it.
If anyone has more info to add, please do.
I like to test the plane coords and rotations out on a collision box, befor editing the main object.
Heres a pic of the COLL in entity, PLANES are what needs edited, verts only matter for the exported coll models, and are not used in game.

[neodos]

What i said on my tutorials, its made up, but the time i didn't know what to look at to get info about it, now there's moe if you search on google, per example:

http://www.edenwaith.com/products/pige/tutorials/collision.php

The plane in fact is a vector for a face, D.

If your export an obj model you have enough data to build the coll, except for the planes which you have to calculate, idk what the formula is probably in the link above on the "Collision Detection Mathematics" part.


But you still can't make phmo :/

[Twinreaper]

Actually that is not entirely accurate. You dont need to recalculate anything for planes. During my H2V adventures, I have been able to use an existing coll tag, and edit only the verts, planes and nodes, and the coll works perfect for the new render_model mesh. The plane data is basically useless besides the numbering of it. I suggest that if you want a model with perfect coll, first make it in 3dsmax, then export the model, taking note of the vertice cords, then calculate how many planes it would be to make the coll model. For a simple box, like many tutorials, it would be only 6 planes. From there, you can simply edit the vertices and planes numbering. If it is anything at all like the Vista counterpart, you should have it done in no time, and working perfectly. Phmo is another simple matter, at least for those with box type calculations, instead of polyhedran. You could also just build any model you want in CE, then use the CE tags info as the base for editing the Halo 2 ones. All verts and shit are always the same, just resized differently by the engine in-game. For instance, in Vista, I have to import xbox models into max at a scale of 100. After all is said and done, when examining the model in Vista, all cord info and shit matches the xbox one exactly.

[neodos]

No try modifing something more complex than a box or a sphere( resizing is possible), something that is asymetrical you'll see without the planes calculated properly and the collision doesn't work att all or just partialy.

Please use the Enter key to jump so lines and not a block of text :/

[Twinreaper]

Actually I have spherical, box and complex shapes like pelican and cov carrier (symetrical) items made. There must be a difference in version then, otherwise the only data you would have to change is the placement, and ordering of the planes. Oh yeah, also I guess you would be fucked for certain items, since you would have to delete, or add new planes, verts and stuff, and I dont know if it would work with H2Guerilla. I never tried to clone a chunk in coll tag, or phmo...which is why I said this based off the Vista counterpart. If you don't like my huge blocks of text, then don't read it! Gettin real tired of the younger little shits around here, tellin me what to do and say. Which is partially why I moved on from this. You guys are becoming no better than the fucks that inhabited Halomods!

[neodos]

You're taking things too seriously, it was a suggestion, it just makes things easyer to read, people is not telling you how to mod, just trying to help don't get so defensive.

All i am saying is you cannot build a new collision tag from a complex model ( no spehre, no boxes) without calculating the plane data, wich is calculated from the faces, determined by the surfaces from edge buffer from vertex (which these 3 are export by an obj per example) the plane data needs to be calculated from that, now the formula shouldn't be very complex, D is like the normal of a face.

And i really don't know what you're talking about, halomods was a bunch of moderators banning people and insulting each other.
I guess just found something better to mod that's all, at least i didn't see you having any problem with any member, you're just making that up, its fine do what you want you know, i was just stating what i actually tried to do myself and the results.

[CaptainPoopface]

If someone could tell me how to resize the coll of the soccer ball sphere to half its regular size, that would be helpful for something I'm working on... I thought someone (JacksonCougar?) had an app to do it. I think I've also seen people offhandedly say it was easy, somehow fundamentally different from resizing more complex coll models.

[JacksonCougarMod]

It was easy. But I forgets how. There's a radius value in the sphere phmo.

[Ogrish]

Wow this is getting out of hand.
Ok restart.

Twin we dont have a public coll injecter, for xbox, so we can extract one to get the distance, rotation, and which way the plane is facing, or move each then re-enter the coords and vectors of each plane, but cant inject a new one.

If the values are correct in the tags its not that hard to scale anything, as for the statement about resizing the coll by moving planes, thats 100% legit.
Ive been doing it for a while, except i was also editing the verts to match, after onyx came out i realized verts dont mean shit, and are a waste of time to calculate.
In the coll making anything tall is super easy, thickening branchs are a little more complicated thats why i tell you how in the my post.

Im not making a new coll from scratch, im resizing existing coll.
one thing that helped me understand it was the exported model.
I used the select face tool to find out where the different planes were, and if you want the vert coords there in there too.

As for phmo, it dont take a genius to edit pill shapes, it just takes time, box and sphere are easy, but the other one is not mapped out right,
I understand how to edit it but it doesnt work, some info is missing or not linked right in the plugin.

[Ogrish]

If you want to make the coll of the soccer bal half size, heres how.

1) open soccerball coll in meta editor.
2) scroll down to planes.
3) on each plain take the # thats to the right of D and divide it by two.
There are 80 planes in the soccerball distance in each plane is 9.something, change all 80 to 4.5, that should do it.

The D is for distance from center, the upper 3 make up the direction and rotation of that plain.
Planes are oneway, so if you have them faceing wrong, projectiles will go thru them, thats why the bubble shields allow the player
inside to shoot out.
To fix this you must edit your coll in simplicity to duplicate all 80 planes, then inject, and reverse the direction each plane is facing, by both removing
the the minus's, and adding them to the values that dont have em, except dont change any distance values.

[NotZachary82]

I thought most of this was a no-brainer? :/

Meh.

[Ogrish]

Some of it is, and yet noone is doing it.
So i figured i would remind the few of us who knew, and maybe help those who didnt.

Maybe tomarrow ill remind us all how to resize 4 or 5 types of phmo.

[troymac1ure]

I thought most of this was a no-brainer? :/

Meh.

I knew I was missing something.

I think I'm confused on this still, but thanks for explaining.
I just don't understand how it checks collisions using planes. If the plane was visibly drawn, would it be as a circle with diameter d (distance) after the given rotation or is it more like a square or am I way off? Are the planes the complete collision check or does it just use the planes to determine if it needs to do a more in-depth calculation to determine if a collision has taken place?

Sometimes I'm such a noob.

Also, I am guessing Entity's collision viewer use the vertices to display the objects then and doesn't display the planes at all?

[Ogrish]

verts are used to draw the models, planes are what fills in between the verts, like faces of a model.
Compare the soccerball, the bomb, and the grenade coll, this will give you an idea about how it works, then compare to a box.

You can also take a box coll, go to the second plane, this is the top of the box if its spawned upright, change the the first
vector# from 0 to 1 or any #, then spawn that box in the onyx map and shoot around and above the lid.
You will see the invisable top of the box is no longer flat, because you changed the rotation of that plane, or leave it normal but change the distance to a larger #, after shooting it with the collision test gun you can see the lid has been raised.

And just to make it clear, im going off best guess from reading other collision topics, asking alot of questions from Neodos, Twinreaper, E73RN4L, comparing many simelar coll tags, and alot of testing.
I dont have it all figured out yet myself, im going to try resizing the road cone next.
And im not sure how entity checks it, i do know onyx only moves the planes in coll when resizing.

[Ogrish]

Oh BTW Troy, the collision viewer in your entity dont work.

[neodos]

The ijk D is a vector that determines in which direction the plane is facing and its center.

If you guys are saying that you can rezise it without editing the vertex, probably, i remember doing so but at some extent, if you get it too big it'll simply have holes or not work at all :S

I don't know if i posted it or not, if link got broken so here's my latest phmo plugin, i updated it from the H2v guerilla, still some reflexives which were not on H2V and i figured part of it.
For phmo i was thinking those using polyhedra might have raw data, maybe its external, on another map not sure, take a look at the "polyhdera or phmo parts" reflexive, last values give plane count and some wreid values whivh i could not figure out,; which i think might be pointing to shapes chunks of other reflexive in the same phmo, or external, just an idea tho nothing sure on that, but values can't match any type except int and it does look like a pointer.

Otherwise i tried(quickly) review the value types on the List and Phantoms reflexives but didn't find anything new, just wreid stuff list might be pointing to other reflexives too.

[XZodia]

Phmo doesn't have raw data.

Planes can be thought of as a rectangle which extends infinitely in all directions.

Hence, vertices are required since they provide limits for the planes.

A plane's ijk is the normal (perpendicular) vector to the surface of the plane. Thus, referring to it as yaw, pitch, roll, is not entirely inaccurate. But you will find that is doesn't follow any rotation laws, and certainly isn't measured in degrees or radians. Also, for the values to be correct the length of the vector should be 1.

[DemonicSandwich]

The verts do nothing beyond providing a linkage for the Edges data. Their actual coordinates are apparently not used in game and mostly likely get a user reference.

[neodos]

Errr pretty much gives the shape to the faces which make the model huh? try nulling out the vertex data you'll see what happens

[troymac1ure]

That all makes sense. I was wondering how you could define a plane without an extent and use it as collision. When you said the verts don't matter, I was like "WTF? now I'm, really lost!"

I'll look into the collision viewer and if I understand the working of the planes correctly, could change it to a collision editor or something like that. I just need to play with it a bit to understand it more.

[Ogrish]

Thanx guys for helping to explain it better, ive noticed that its not in radiens, and yaw pitch and roll arnt right but i didnt know how else to explain it, cause they are rotation type values.

You can set all the verts to 1 or 10 or 1000 and in game nothing will happen, if you export the model, the changes will show,
on the exported model.

I never considered that the verts would control the shape of the planes, that would solve the mystery of how triangles are done.

Ive thought of the panes as rectangles too but then i realizes they dont have to be rectangle, as the case of the road cone, maybe its the verts coming into
play, but i noticed the cone has some data that most other colls do not, The 2D nodes, which i havnt played with yet.

Any way, progress in understanding is being made here, and i thank you guys for that, except for Zack who seems to know everything, but never has any real info to share.

Sorry Troy I didnt mean the verts wernt necesary, i ment editing them isnt necesary to resize the coll, but for reshapeing it that make good sence.

[Ogrish]

If anyone wants a resized soccer ball just say the word, ive scaled the Model, Coll, and phmo down about 50%, my phmo is slightly bigger then my model and coll in theese pics, but thats easilly fixed.
I just did this for learning purpose, and because poopface seemed to want it.
Just ask and ill post the tag, ill prolly be rescaling several objects, just for the fun of it.

[CaptainPoopface]

That looks great Ogrish! Yes, please post the 50% scaled ball or PM it to me. But I appreciate your explanation - maybe other people already knew, but it was always a mystery to me how bullets could travel out of the soccer ball coll but not into it. Now I understand.

It occurs to me that if you were to reverse it so that bullets only come in but can't come out, then you basically have a gun-jammer projectile. Hit someone with it, and he can't shoot until it detonates off him.

[Zieon Eslador]

That looks great Ogrish! Yes, please post the 50% scaled ball or PM it to me. But I appreciate your explanation - maybe other people already knew, but it was always a mystery to me how bullets could travel out of the soccer ball coll but not into it. Now I understand.

It occurs to me that if you were to reverse it so that bullets only come in but can't come out, then you basically have a gun-jammer projectile. Hit someone with it, and he can't shoot until it detonates off him.

Or better yet, make a [coll] sphere just big enough for a crouching MC to fit into and make it reflect all projectiles. Spawn it via crouching and you have a makeshift Armor-Lock. You could even throw the EMP in there too if you wanted.

[Ogrish]

Extract to C: build with Entity 1.3.9 or any below 2.1
I saved meta with 1.3.9 because saving things with 2.1 gives objects funky .ext's

http://www.filefront.com/17160775/soccerball.rar